Rampart Talks: John Mullen

This month, my guest on Rampart Talks is Qantas chairman John Mullen. 

I've known John, and been fond of him, for about a decade. Back when I enjoyed a tipple, we'd split a bottle (or two) of Grand Cru Chablis over lunch at Beppi's from time to time. Those who've read it will also know John was given the first and the last word in my book, The Chairman's Lounge. 

Despite my admiration for John, I hit him in this interview with a swag of impertinent if not hostile questions, which he answered without so much as a trace of affront. This is a real tell of how little ego the man has, since the vast preponderance of Australian business leaders would never countenance exposing themselves to the slightest indignity.

Speaking of paranormal egos, in the coming days, the one belonging to former Qantas CEO Alan Joyce will once again be on prime display, as he hits the publicity trail for his new memoir. Oh, goodie! 

I asked Mullen to describe Joyce's Qantas legacy, and he said: "If I was him, you've had a very successful track record of running an airline. These things come to an end. He's got plenty of money, [he] doesn't need to work. Why not go out and enjoy life and leave the past behind you? If I was him, that's the legacy I'd be looking for, but if he wants to continue fighting, well that's his call."

Mullen also responded (without enthusiasm) to public comments made last month by his predecessor Richard Goyder rejecting the central findings of the Qantas board's 2024 governance review that Joyce dominated the "collegiate" Qantas board with his "command and control" leadership style. Asked if Goyder put his signature on the report and lodged it with the stock exchange under duress, Mullen said, "No, I don't think so. And while one can take exception with bits and pieces here or there, I don't think any of us, including myself, would take exception to the overall body of the report and the findings. I think they were accurate." 

Frankly, this is a tiny fraction of the fascinating remarks Mullen makes about Qantas in this episode. 

We also address Mullen's full dance card – he chairs Brambles and Treasury Wine Estates in addition to Qantas, and was targeted by proxy advisers at the last two TWE annual meetings over his workload – while he defends Vicki Brady, who he appointed as Telstra CEO, over the recent network outage. 

We hear about Mullen's mentorship by the late, great Sir Peter Abeles; the time Mullen as a young Ansett executive was caught fibbing to the airline's proprietor Rupert Murdoch; the lawlessness of Port Botany as Mullen robotised the docks as Asciano CEO while striking up an unlikely friendship with MUA secretary Paddy Crumlin.

"Paddy said to me that if you've been a wharfie for 40 years, you're in your late sixties, you're not going to retrain as a software engineer. It's just not going to happen, that's not the real world. These people won't work again, and you have that on your conscience. It certainly, I think, led me to really double down on remembering that every one of your employees is not a number on a spreadsheet. People just like you, and me, with families, with kids looking up to them… I think those things get lost all too easily in the corporate world." 

There is so much more in this episode, so I encourage you to access the full version, which runs for 64 minutes. The full version is only available to Rampart's premium subscribers, who can watch on rampart.news or listen via Spotify or Apple Podcasts (if you haven't already activated this integration with your preferred podcast app, you can do so here). 

For Rampart's free list members, a 15 minute cut is available on rampart.news, YouTube and all the major podcast players. 

I hope you enjoy it. 

Cheers, Joe

Previous episodes: James Packer, Gillon McLachlan, Brad Banducci, Jayne Hrdlicka, Nick Molnar, Matt Comyn, Oliver Curtis, Hamish Douglass, Ruthie Rogers and Todd Greenberg.